| PG: | Hello, I’m here with Cole Miner, Mr. Oregon Leather 2015. |
| CM: | Oregon State Leather. |
| PG: | Oregon State Leather 2015. |
| CM: | Yeah. |
| PG: | Thank you for sitting down with me to talk about experiences, and to get started, how did you get into leather? |
| CM: | My first experiences with leather were with a gentleman in Grand Rapids, Michigan. His real name was Bob, but he went by Sir Ramrod. I was doing massage therapy at the time, and he ordered my services, and I came down. I remember him wearing chaps throughout the whole massage. Afterwards he started talking to me about my sexual preferences and proclivities and things like that, and I said, “Well I’m pretty much open to anything.” I was into fisting before then, so doing really kinky stuff wasn’t anything unusual to me. |
| We started talking about drugs, and at the time I was kind of into doing coke a lot, and crack actually. He was like, “Well, have you ever done meth?” And I was like, “Yeah, but I didn’t really care for it. I had two experiences that were blech, I didn’t really care for it.” Well he goes, “Well have you ever slammed?” I was like, “I don’t know. What does that mean? I don’t know what that means,” and he was like, “Inject it.” | |
| I had just found out I was positive less than a month previous to that, and I thought, “Let’s do it.” Well he showed me how to do it, number one, by showing me a book that we had gotten from San Francisco on how to do it correctly. I was like, “Okay, I feel safe now.” He did it for me, and I felt it, and I was like, “Wow this is pretty intense.” | |
| Then he tied me to a bed and he had his way with me for about two days and then he became a regular thing, and he called me when he wanted me to come over and he would always be wearing his chaps, and he would put me in some of his gear. He put me in boots, and harnesses, hats, gloves, the whole deal. | |
| He would tie me up to things. He would shove dildos up me, and the whole time, of course, we’d be high, but there’s something I really trusted about him. I knew that he’d be taking care of me. I knew that I was sort of Ramrod’s toy, a possession, when I was there. He was very respectful of who I was. He knew that I needed someone to take over. That’s how my leather got started. I always thought it was a little unfortunate that it had the drugs there, but I think it would have happened anyway. | |
| I just needed to find somebody who was willing to take me on. I’ve always been a lot to handle, so him taking control of me, not only physically or sexually, but also chemically was a big deal. It worked in that sense. | |
| PG: | That he was controlling all aspects of your experience? |
| CM: | All aspects, yeah. |
| PG: | Okay, and when was that in terms of your age and when you got into leather? |
| CM: | I was 24. I found out I was positive in September, like September 13th? Yeah, September 13th, 2007. It was less than a month later I met him. I said, “Well I’ve already got the one thing everybody doesn’t want me to have. Now it’s just time to have fun.” He was already positive, and back then it wasn’t undetectable yet, so he told me he was positive right away. I was like, “Okay, me too. Let’s do this. Let’s play.” |
| PG: | I mean we’re pretty much the same age. Growing up with HIV was when it was just sort of like, “Oh well, that’s the worst thing that can happen to me.” Now that it’s happened, let’s … The liberation of that. |
| CM: | 100%. When I was 15, I came out to my mother, and the first thing she said was, “Well don’t get AIDS.” Like, “Okay, that’s fine. Don’t get AIDS.” I said, “Mom, not everybody gets AIDS, and it’s HIV anyway.” I knew at 15, even from my poor high school what it meant, what it all meant. To then get it was actually very relieving. I remember thinking, literally, wiping the sweat from my brow, like, “Now we can finally get to it.” |
| PG: | Life-long anxiety. |
| CM: | Yeah. |
| PG: | Done. |
| CM: | It’s gone, right. I don’t have to worry about getting it because I have it now, and now we can just deal with it. I was living in Michigan, so dealing with it was a different situation. They weren’t great with medications. It was there, but I was a long-time non-progressor all the time that I was in Michigan, so I wasn’t on meds. |
| My biggest concerns were like, “Alright, well, how do I tell people? And what’s that gonna mean for me?” Because I was very sexually active. Also the guy that I gave … or that gave it to me, I reported to the CDC because we were sexual partners and he continually told me he was getting tested and that he was negative. | |
| I found out from someone completely, like I don’t even know how, that he was positive. That to me, him lying, was a huge break of trust. I went to his house and I said, “I’m going to get tested right now. Did you want to tell me something?” Because it’s a federal offense. He said, “Yes I do have HIV,” and I said, “Well, I’m telling the CDC about you.” | |
| Somebody else reported him, and he ended up going … I think serving time somewhere. I get shit for it. Some people give me shit when I tell that story, and other people appreciate what I did. I want to remind people, this man lied to me over and over and over again. When I come over to his house and tell me that I’m safe, I got checked out, I’m good, are we good? There’s another part to the story that really doesn’t matter. That’s cool. | |
| PG: | The interesting dynamic of that repeated violation of trust, and then to meet Sir Ramrod who, in a lot of ways, it sounds like, had a really safe positive and maybe not nurturing environment, but- |
| CM: | Oh no, it was like … At hour six, he’d go up and get Ensure, like it was time to drink, you know? He was trying to eat and drink. He would stop and get me food. It was very nurturing. This man was not just this physical torturer or whatever. He took care of me 100%. At the point when I needed to go to the bathroom, it was time to go to the bathroom, go to the bathroom, and have your time in there. There’s no rush, come back out when you’re ready. Because we didn’t want piss and shit in his bed, but he also needed me to be safe and whatever. |
| But when it came down to giving it to me and making me feel pain, and spanking me, and whipping me, and tying me up, and sometimes he’s taking me to a point of fear, but it was this fear that I craved. He would choke me out, like completely out. I would wake up and be so happy that he did it me, that he actually did that. He would always come inside of me. That was another thing. He could. That was the other thing. He would come over and over and over again. But he would do it inside of me, that made me feel like, “Thank you.” | |
| PG: | But there’s a special bond there. |
| CM: | There’s a special bond, yeah. And then like, “Yes, you are giving me more HIV,” or whatever. From the get go, I never believed in multiple strains, and I still have issues. |
| PG: | That’s something the science has disproved. |
| CM: | Right. Right away, I thought, “Well, if that’s true, then I have a lot of strains, and I don’t.” I have one strain. It reacts well to the meds that I’m on now. Yeah, so we’re good. He would take me places, and to rest stops. Whatever he said I had to do, I had to do. He would hit me before we’d go into the rest stop, and then I remember there being guys going to the bathroom. We were by the urinals, and I had to suck and be fucked by anybody that came along. There were guys that would come in and do that to me. |
| I just thought, “I would never be here by myself. Like this would be terrifying. But to have this guy … ” I want to point out Master Ramrod was not attractive at all. He was very unattractive. This man has lived with HIV for years, and that’s probably why he covered his legs all the time. I’ve never seen his legs. | |
| PG: | Just the toll that the disease took on his body? |
| CM: | 100%. It was something like, I appreciate that. I wanted to be a part of that. I wanted to be a part of a generation that … When we talk about generations that were lost, I wanted to be a part of that generation. I wanted him to know he could pass down the knowledge. Here I was, you know? |
| PG: | How long were you guys together and have that relationship? |
| CM: | I want to say a year and a half, two years. Eventually I got ahold of my own shit. I started going to the leather bar that was … I met other people to party with. He introduced me to people. A really good friend who is a leather guy, he ran for Mr. Rumors. No, we both ran for Mr. Rumors, and I have the poster. It’s up there. |
| It’s Mr. Rumors Leather, back in Grand Rapids Michigan, and it was like 2007 or 2008 or something like that. We both ran, and his name was Rufus. I had no idea what I was doing, but I was up on stage and I was having fun. He ended up winning, and we all went back, everybody, like judges and everybody went back to Bob’s house and of course everybody was getting high and fucking and fisting and leather and it’s intense. | |
| We ended up becoming really good friends, really really close. We called each other brother, and it was all about … If you look him up, unfortunately, he died a few years later. I feel like it had something to do with me, because he was negative when the whole thing took place. He died positive, and it could have been because of me. He knew that, he thanked me for it, but he never blamed me for anything. | |
| PG: | It’s one of those things where the … We all know what risks we’re taking to a certain extent, and when someone’s lying to you about their status, that’s a different thing, but when someone’s up front and it’s just like, “Hey, I know I’m taking this risk.” |
| CM: | Well, he was searching for it, and I thought, “God, this is silly.” I’m like, “You’re silly, but I’m hanging out with you. I really like fucking you. We’re fun. We really get along great.” |
| The saddest part about it is that he only lived three years after. He died of pneumonia. There’s more to that story, but I can’t help but think it was me. I can’t help, but anyway, I know that when he passed, he thought of me as a brother and I still think of him as a brother, and it’s just sad that … | |
| PG: | You lost your brother. |
| CM: | That I lost my brother, that I lost somebody that looked at me and loved me no matter what. I ate his ass out or something like that En Vogue concert on the streets of Chicago, like that’s our relationship. We’d go to the bathhouses and bring people in to fuck each other and just yeah … We were leather folk. To us, that was our leather scene. It was more just about a brotherhood that I didn’t have. |
| PG: | What brought you to 2015 seeking the Mr. Oregon State Leather title? |
| CM: | Yeah, so everything between that story and getting me to there really doesn’t matter, when it comes to my leather … I was really just trying to figure out how I could survive without meth and without just … Without anybody, with no family around. I moved to Oregon and I got … I lived in Eugene for a little bit. Then I moved up here and I got back into meth in Eugene and then I moved back up here. Then I got clean. When I was clean, I was almost two years, but I … During that time off, I met a former Mr. Oregon State Leather. I met him at … It was at Fun House Lounge and they were doing … I think it was a Bearracuda, and they were outside. It was him and his partner and they were outside having a cigar. I was just like, “Oh, it smells so good. Can you teach me?” |
| He had some leather on, and I was just there, trying to act my butchest. I think it might’ve been the night that that was taken, the one up there. I was talking to him and I was very eager and I was very, “You could tell me whatever you wanted and I would do it. You’re a very handsome man.” | |
| I learned from him about how to smoke a cigar and whiskey and things like that. His partner was really into … I didn’t drink because I was sober, but they allowed me into their home. Also, I went to a play party, one of the dungeon parties, where I got to meet all these other men, like leather men and just men in BDSM and everything that I wanted and I was like, “I need this in my life. I need …” Because when you’re sober, you don’t have any way to torture yourself, other than to be sober and being sober is torture, especially for someone like me. I need to be able to process pain and sometimes it’s … I need to process mental and emotional pain that I can’t do without physical pain. | |
| PG: | That’s part of how you reconcile things. |
| CM: | It is, yeah. It comes a lot from my childhood and having a really abusive father and things like that. I would be in the dungeon scene and I’d be looking around for something to happen and then I’d say, “Will you please, sir? Will you show me the ways?” He took me on. He was … He’s very, very smart and he’s actually pretty shy, but when he’s a sir, he’s very assertive and he’s very aggressive.. He took me on. I remember a couple weeks after that, I asked him, “Can I be your boy?” I knew that that wasn’t how it was played. You don’t do that. You get asked.. They pick you, blah, blah, blah. I was just like … There’s only so much of this protocol that I know about, number one, and number two, that I can deal with, because a person like myself, I need to … grrrrr. For the folks at home, I made a pouncing tiger noise. |
| He thought it over. He went home and he discussed it with his partner, because I didn’t realize that it would be him and the partner. They shared me, and then it was fine. I was totally into it. The one partner, he only wanted one or two things from me. He wanted me to be … He wanted me to stay sober and be strongly sober, right? He wanted me to try his non-alcoholic mixed beverages, because he’s a mixologist, so he loved making drinks, but he knew that he couldn’t make alcoholic drinks. The third thing was that he wanted me to suck his dick the way that he wanted it sucked. I have a very big mouth and, I take direction very well. My relationship with him was very physical and it was very … It was very fun and he’s a very very smart man. | |
| But sir and I, that was the daddy, sir dynamic that I really, really needed. It was amazing. I went down to the door, close it behind me, lock it, strip. Then, he would walk up to me, put a collar on me, put cuffs on him, do whatever he wanted to do to make it known that I was his boy. Then it was like every single thing that he put on me was “Yeah, please more.” If I was allowed to speak, it was mostly asking for more. He would have these elaborate scenes ready for me, in his house. I thought that was really beautiful, and I was always so thankful, because afterwards, there was always cuddling and dinner. | |
| PG: | It sounds like he modeled what it was to be a title holder and a mentor. |
| CM: | Yeah, well, I kind of didn’t know what … I didn’t know what it meant to be a … Yeah, what it meant to be a title. I didn’t even know that there were titles. I knew IML, because I had been there. Sad story, but I went there when we were coming down one night. This is in Chicago, of course. We were walking around and I was just like, “I don’t want to be here right now. I feel like shit. I look like shit. People know that I look like shit. I don’t want to be the guy on meth at IML.” For some reason, I thought of this place as being … We were just walking around the, the … |
| PG: | The market? |
| CM: | The market, right. I was like, “I’m disgracing everybody. I’m really giving this place a bad name by being in here and we should get out.” Then of course, we went up into a hotel. I didn’t realize what I was getting myself into, but … I know that I’m jumping back, but I want to tell the story. I was laying in a bed and I was naked and we were smoking drugs, and this guy comes in, big black guy. Of course, he’s got this really big dick and I’m just like, “Cool. Good for you.” He’s high and he just takes me and he starts fucking me. I’m like, “Okay, this is great. This is fine,” except that he’s fucking me like he’s worried I’m going to break. |
| CM: | Eventually, at some point, because he’s just seriously really taking his time. I’m just like, “You can fuck me hard. I get fisted.” He was like, “Okay.” Even then, it kind of threw him off, so it’s just a really interesting … The things I really hate about meth in general is that the lines of communication are fuzzy They’re broken sometimes. It took me a really long time to be comfortable to say, “Hey, fuck away. This is fun.” Like, “You don’t intimidate me. Your giant member does not intimidate me. Please have fun.” Anyway, so when I heard that he was a title holder, I thought that was really amazing. I thought that was really admirable, because I think title holders are people that put themselves out there for the community. They raise money for admirable causes. I thought, “That’s great. Let’s do that.” |
| I was like, “Eh, it’d be cool if I could do that, but I don’t think I’m going to do that, because I’m not the kind of person that they want.” Somebody came in between us and that’s why sir chose to … We separated or whatever. It hurt for me, because I was like, “No. I can’t even keep a daddy relationship.” A well known member of the community, sort of like saw me and he saw what I could offer and I thought he just wanted to have one play session. Well, when I asked sir if this person could have one play session, it was the wrong person to ask for. He talked it over with the person and they … It just dissolved everything. | |
| That person didn’t even play it through, like I went months talking to this person on the phone, in person, emails about making it happen, about becoming his other boy, because he had other boys and he never. He just disappeared and he let me go. It was really sad. It was like I didn’t need another dad disappearing on me. Like I said, he’s a very well known leather man in the community. He’s not as well known anymore. | |
| When Steve Steinbock won 2014, I was there and I thought, “Oh, that’s great. I don’t know who that person is. Oh, no, I did know who that person is, because he turned me down.” It’s just like, “That’s fine.” The problem that I … Nevermind. He turned me down and I was just like, “You could have done that different, but whatever, we’re good.” Steve Steinbock won. Awesome, good for him. Shawna won. Awesome, good for her. Later on, she and I would become friends, which would be part of the problem of my entire year. We went to the after party and I met the other person who lost that year, and he was very upset. What’s his name? I’m sure I’ll think of it. Yeah, so he was really upset that year, because I think that was his second time running and he really wanted it. It’s like, “Okay, that’s fair.” Unfortunately, he would run against me the next year. | |
| PG: | And you won? |
| CM: | And I won, yeah. When people complain about why I won, it’s because I’m really fucking good on stage. The only thing that I had a little problem with was my speech and yeah, I was a little nervous. For the most part, my speech was wonderful. I spoke from my heart. In fact, I made sure to not memorize the speech, because I wanted to go up there and tell people what I had to offer. I had a really awesome performance. |
| PG: | Okay, and how was your title year? How was that experience? |
| CM: | ::Laughter:: Okay, so I went into my title year thinking I’m going to raise so much fucking money. That’s all I really wanted to do. I didn’t realize that I had three people competing with me. I thought that the three people that were my family would all support me and that I would support them in what they were doing. It didn’t turn out that way. It became more of a competition of who’s cooler, whatever. I was in my own little thing. At the same time, I was fully supportive of everybody else. Some of the things that I’ve heard about me through other things that: I would sabotage, not sabotage, but I don’t know. Silly things like I would talk over with people during the meetings. I’m just like, “I’m just excitable.” A lot of the things that I heard about me afterwards, like the things that weren’t good about me, were just my personality. Or even, this is one thing that I started realizing was happening was – I’m bipolar, so … I’m still even realizing what that means and how that plays out – I was living an entire year of being in mania. |
| CM: | Yeah, and going to every meeting and being super fucking insane and leaving every meeting going like, “What did I do wrong?” Going to some of the meetings with my crew, the family, the four of us, and then the meetings with BLP, and how cold they were to me and how verbally aggressive they were to me. Well, the president at the time, verbally harassed in front of everybody a couple times. He made it really difficult to be a title holder. What I said earlier about Shawna being a friend, so there’s this whole thing about Shawna the year before and how she was almost going to get kicked out or whatever. She almost lost her title because she didn’t perform well. I don’t know the truth of all that. What I do know is that Shawna didn’t get her title taken away from her, because she almost sued. Then the night that I won, Shawna came up to me and said, “You know, good job.” |
| PG: | “Congratulations.” |
| CM: | “Also, be careful.” She wasn’t the only one that told me that. There were other people that said, “Cole, now’s not the best time to be a part of this, but we think that you’re going to do great.” And me, I’m just like, “Oh. Once I get in there, I’m going to have so much fun. I’m going to show everybody how hard working I am.” Mind you, I don’t have a job the whole time. I’m poor. I don’t have money. I don’t have a car. I was single the entire time that I was a title holder. All the other people had cars. They had jobs. They had partners to support them, to take them places. |
| What I was stacked I was stacked up against. They have the nerve to say the things that they were saying about me was really, really upsetting. I went to so many different places all around. You know, you saw me at a lot of them. ::Laughs:: I was in Seattle for their pride. That was the best. San Francisco, Palm Springs, San Jose, LA, all these places. I got there because people trusted me with donating to me and the hard work that I put into getting prizes, getting leather out to people, getting dildos out to people. I contacted Ox, himself, of Oxballs and got him to donate over a hundreds of dollars worth of toys, okay? SquarePeg, Scott? Yeah. | |
| PG: | A lovely Portland company. |
| CM: | Yeah, exactly, right? There’s all these different people. I contacted them. We became friends and everything. Unfortunately, I think Ox and I were way too similar and when he asked me to marry him, and I was like, “Yes, but I’m never moving to LA.” Yeah, we parted on that. …. I did so much. Mind you, I’m also earning money on the side so that I don’t have to pay rent here. None of this is … That’s the thing, but I was doing massages at the time and I was weary about saying, “I’m Mr. Oregon State Leather. Let’s get a massage.” Well, it turned out to be a great way to sell massages. Those massages ended up helping me get places. Again, I also went to IML the year before the one that I went so that I could go check it out, so I could go get the feel and I had places to stay. |
| Anyway, what I found out about during my title year was number one, the PLM … No, I’m sorry. Yeah, Portland Leather Men, wonderful group of men, super supportive. They constantly were showing up at my events. Sometimes I think about, “Oh, did I show them as much gratitude?” To let them know how much they helped out and I think I did, but I think there was … Are you … | |
| PG: | I just want to … Yes. |
| CM: | Okay. There was Portland Leather Men, love them, right. Then there was the Dungeon Men. They’re really wonderful and supportive, Eagle, The Portland Eagle, really, really wonderful. They let me host LURE, Leather, Uniform, Rubber, Etc. There, I was able to raise money. I was like, “This is amazing. My community is really doing what I wanted.” Then I put on Vulgarity For Charity with the rest of my group, which they did … I don’t want to the play the, “They didn’t do much,” but they didn’t. I came up with Vulgarity for Charity, and I can prove it because I stole it from somebody else. In the way that it was put together was really half ass and I feel bad about it, but it worked out and money was raised and that’s what it was. In the end, not that it was a competition, but I raised way more money than anybody else on my thing, okay? |
| The way that I was treated for it was that I was disgusting, that there was something wrong with me, that I was … Like I said, people from this community, from Blackout Leather Productions … Well, they were former. I got to say this. They were no longer Blackout Productions when they were there at IML. When they were there, at IML, and they were running security, they were … What is it when someone threatens you with their eyes? Like they’re- | |
| PG: | Intimidation. |
| CM: | Intimidating. Yeah, they used intimidation and they were … These are people known … They put online that they carry guns, okay? They carry guns into places that we go into, okay? This person intimidated me the entire time and the other person that was there, the entire time that I was there. The other people that were there for their own reasons wouldn’t say hi to me, wouldn’t talk to me. When I approached them about having the sash, which was the biggest … Here’s where it all went down, right? No, I don’t want to talk about that yet. |
| PG: | Okay. |
| CM: | Let’s go back: because I feel like there’s more to this story than that sash. My leather life became everybody else’s leather life, because I also started, or got involved with Flaggers. Flaggers started off terrible, the first night. I don’t know if you even remember being there. |
| PG: | Yes. |
| CM: | Okay, and it’s kind of legendary. You either were there or you weren’t and then you have the story, right? |
| PG: | Just a lot of community involvement and a lot of charity work and a lot of … |
| CM: | There’s a list. I have a list. It’s pages of what I did. |
| PG: | Before we actually started, you mentioned that you were volunteering for Our House, which was one of the charities and that you kept doing that. |
| CM: | I keep doing … Every single week. I’m one of the big … I’m one of the guys. They can’t do it without me now. That’s not true. I recently trained somebody that could easily take my job, which is great, because I need a break once in a while. But, I love it. I go there and I take everything I love and I take it and I make sure that my heart’s there every single day. When I don’t have a full heart day, I take a moment and I walk out and I take a break and come back, and come back to be there for them. I’m also a client there and I know that I want to be treated with kindness and respect. The other thing is I refuse to let somebody who’s a homo to walk around in the shitty clothes that is donated to us. I’m just like, “mm-mmm (negative).” I’m like the queen at Buffalo Exchange, that just looks at it and folds it up again and puts it in their bag, doesn’t even tell you what it is about. Yeah, that’s me. I love it. I love it so much. I have so much fun. |
| I also work in Esther’s, which is when people who are walking around, shopping for food. It’s really powerful to talk to somebody who is … Okay, so you get a lot of people, like myself, you walk in and this is supplemental. This is all supplemental. This is filling the gaps that my food card or my money isn’t filling. There are people that go in there and haven’t eaten in a couple days, or all they have in their cupboard is tomato paste and spaghetti and they can’t do it again. They just can’t. | |
| PG: | It’s covering their basics. |
| CM: | It is but, but, we do so much more than that. If you ever get an opportunity to come and tour. We’re the best food bank in the county, in the state, probably. I’ve been to other food banks. It’s not good. It’s okay. You get food, but a lot of times you’re given a box. What we have is a model that lets people actually shop. It’s like yeah, there’s a sign that says you can only have so many cans of this or this and we’re there to help people decide on things. You’re shopping for yourself. You get to know people in the half hour that you’re shopping with them. It’s really powerful. I think of the times they saved my life. |
| There’s also people that come in that aren’t HIV positive. They just heard about it somehow. We have a thing that we’re allowed to do. We can give you a box of food. Unfortunately, it’s only boxes. It’s only food that we haven’t purchased or we’ve donated food, because of the … Yeah, but you still get to walk away with a box of food. That’s amazing. | |
| PG: | Getting back to leather stuff, lots of different experiences, lots of different people that you’ve met. In your mind, what makes a good leather folk? |
| CM: | Let me see. Alright, I think there has to be … When I think of men that I admire in the leather community, I think of Brent Seeley, right away. I think of Tom Lutz. Honestly, I do think of you, but in a weird kind of way. Because you’re so nice. You’ve been so pleasant every single time I’ve come into contact with you. You could be a dick. You could easily just be like, “Fucking, get away from you,” because the amount of attention that you get, I can’t imagine. I get it too I can only imagine what kind of attention you get and how it’s not pleasant all the time. The way that I’ve seen you manage that is really… it’s not, eloquent. It’s something, I … |
| PG: | Thank you. |
| CM: | I look up to you and I’m just like, “That’s a man.” You’re very smart. You’re successful. I look for men who have some success in their life. so that it’s not all about this control thing. Like, “Well, since I can’t control my finances, I might as well some poor little boy.” To me, I see that and it’s very unattractive. I think you have to be ready for some humility, right? You got to be ready to step up. Taking charge, and do things because they’re right, not just because everybody says it’s their thing. It’s so weird. We’re still saying stuff like that. We’re out of middle school, but- |
| PG: | But the ability to do the right thing. |
| CM: | Yeah, and to know what to do in the wrong situation and that’s in the bedroom and that’s out of the bedroom. When that thing happened at Flaggers, before Flaggers was Flaggers. There was a moment where I had no idea what the fuck to do. Normally, I can handle my shit. I’m really good under conflict. I grew up in, again, an abusive household, also the child of an alcoholic, so I know how to deal with shit. When that went down, I thought, “Everybody involved in this is an idiot and needs to just calm down and chill out.” My problem was that I was playing host to all this, and I didn’t know what that meant. I thought, “Oh, if I just say something cute or if I just say something whatever.” I wasn’t ready to play Geraldo. That was what I felt like. I was like, “I’m going to get a chair to the face, because this guy over here knows me a certain way and this guy over here knows me a certain way and neither of them are respecting me at all as the host. Now they have their little cronies backing them up. What is this about?” |
| I don’t look at any of those people as good leather men. I look at them. They wear leather. They beat their boys. They do their thing, but when it comes down to it, they don’t know what to do in a rough situation. I take that and I’m thinking, “What would in a situation where a restraint breaks and all the sudden, you’re choking.” How does somebody who is in that situation deal with the other situation. To me, I feel like I could handle the situation, if it’s something … | |
| PG: | That with leather, With S&M, restraints and the part where it’s just like, “Okay, we are going to put ourselves in situations where harm, we know harm can be done and being able to prepare and plan accordingly for that.” It sounds like in that situation, that you weren’t really expecting harm to be done. People still didn’t really know how to react and either control themselves or manage the situation. |
| CM: | There are people who just wanted to go there and talk about sub/dom relationships and complexities and somebody said something really stupid and then somebody else followed it up. That was a terrible night for the leather, as far as I’m concerned. I think every other, almost every other flaggers after that, I thought was beautiful and I thought it was wonderful, because it was exactly that. It was about teaching people how to do the thing that you want to do. I’m going to do it lovingly and then also what do to if something bad happens. I’m into fisting, as we all know and the one thing … I always get people that are like, “Oh. There’s blood.” I’m like, “That’s what happens.” |
| PG: | Is it pink or is it red? |
| CM: | Is it pink? Is it red? Or is it purple? We have to remember that when it’s a full on purple situation is not good. I’ve gone to the emergency room, not because of fisting, but because of other things. So I know what colors we’re looking for. I know consistency. In that moment, there was very much a, “Okay, so this is what’s happening now. I’m done doing that with my butt. We’re going to clean everything up and we’re going to go.” I think that good leather men can stay in that world, can be hot, hot, hot and immediately cool themselves down when necessary. I think there are people out there that want to wear leather and they want to hit people and they want to be hit, but they don’t know how to bring it down when something goes wrong. |
| When I’m playing with somebody and they see just red, they want to stay in that heat zone and not heat good, but heat scare. I’m immediately … I’m fine. This is something that happens. I think you just got to … I don’t know. There’s also this to be in the leather community, I think you just be a leather men or leather person and have nothing to do with the community, because the community … I think what the community has done is created rules and laws and things that I don’t think leather has any need to be a part of, which brings me … I saw that we have questions about Old Guard. I don’t think Old Guard exists. I think there’s just a lot of old guys out there that really want to stick to their things. That’s fine. I think there’s younger guys that like that as well and they enjoy that. I love it. It’s fine. It’s great. Put me in that outfit. I can play top, bottom, we’re good. | |
| Then I think that there’s just a lot of people who don’t want to wear all that outfit. They don’t want to say “yes, sir” every single time. I think that’s the same thing. It’s fine. I do think puppies are different. :: Laughs::. That’s fine too. I’m no good with puppies. | |
| PG: | Alright. Can we take a quick break to get some water and- |
| CM: | Yeah, please. |
| PG: | All right, and we are back. What does your involvement with leather culture and/or community look like these days? |
| CM: | Every once in a while I go to a potluck, and I really enjoy the men that are there. These are all men that are easily 60s, 70s, 80s, and I feel completely at home with them. So there’s that. Every once in a while I’ll go to a dungeon party, and I really enjoy the space in general. But every time I’m there, there’s only a few hours to be there. I find myself going and finding somebody to do the thing that I want to do to me. |
| It’s interesting because a lot of times Sir, and I remember him just some of the beating he would give me were so perfect, and he’s very busy most of the time, so it’s interesting because I’ll just find myself killing time with somebody else just because I know that I can’t have that anymore. Not that he wouldn’t, we’ve had sessions before, recently, but there’s that. | |
| Let me see, I don’t go to the Queer Leather dinners, I don’t participate in any Blackout Leather production events, I don’t really go to the leather bar, but when I do, I actually had a … there was a period there where I experienced a lot of anxiety about going to the leather bar. Now I’m fine, I can go there. I also started drinking again over the last year, and that’s good, drinking in a very responsible way. I like to tell people that this whole time I haven’t been drunk. I just drink, like two drinks. | |
| PG: | Have a drink or two. |
| CM: | Yeah. Those margaritas, :: Laughs:: man, got me back to it. I have to say, if you’re gonna be a recovering meth addict, pick a different thing to be chill with, and drinking is wonderful for that. I still like cigar play and smoking cigars. Now, I think the reason why I backed off of so much of this is … Oh, and I don’t do flaggers. I’m not even sure if flaggers exists anymore. |
| PG: | They just had their last meeting today. |
| CM: | Did they really? |
| PG: | Mm-hmm (affirmative). |
| CM: | Okay. There it goes. I have a partner, and we’re very not vanilla. |
| PG: | I’m shocked! |
| CM: | Yeah, I know, right? I go into relationships with … Okay, three things have to be there. Okay? Lots of honesty. I need to say what I needed to say, and I need you to tell me what you need to say. That’s very important. Within that, I need a lot of communication, whatever it is, just need a lot of talking back and forth. I find myself still today having trouble with that one. But that’s what it’s about, it’s about growing and let’s let that be the one we have trouble with. Because the last one, and this is an absolute requirement, if you’re not fisting me at least three or four times a month, we will not succeed, I will not let the relationship succeed, I need to be fisted. |
| Now, within my relationship right now with Larry, we have added just basic kink to that. He loves fisting, as well. He loves fisting me, he can take fists as well, so it’s fun, we can go back and forth, I love it. But he requires more spanking than I do, which is a lot of fun. Our power dynamics are changed a lot because he has a disability, so putting him on the bed is an actual challenge with his ass in the air, and then just spanking him until he screams out is so satisfying to me, because I know he loves it. He can take way more than I can, which is so beautiful to see. | |
| We plan ahead for days that are fetish and leather oriented. He has leather, I have leather. I make sure that we have leather days, that we have days where we are in fetish gear. We can get naked and fuck and do just like everybody else, but there’s a reason why our relationship is the way that it is, why it succeeds. And it is because we fulfill each other’s fantasies quite often. I need to see him in some chaps or with a hood on. I love leather hoods or just hood in general. Putting him in restraints is awesome. I love that. Finding out new ways to hang him from places. Again, because of the disability it sort of limits how we can put him into different positions. | |
| PG: | There’s certain constraints where it’s just getting him in and out of the position, and doing it safely. |
| CM: | Right. |
| PG: | But at the same time, it doesn’t stop you. |
| CM: | It doesn’t stop me. I crave the new, to find out a new way to do it. So he has metal, like a bed thing, what do they call it, a canopy? |
| PG: | Mm-hmm (affirmative). |
| CM: | So he’s got that, but it’s not strong enough to hold him, his whole body weight. Well, I just found out recently that because I refuse to celebrate Christmas and he’s not going to send back the gift that he got me that we got a little sling that’s like a half-sling. I’m really looking forward to because it lets the bottom either lay on their back or their belly while the other person can stand on this little … Oh my god, I can’t wait … But I can hook him to the whole thing and I think it’s going to be great, yeah. That way I can hit him from the back. I love flogging him. I love whipping him, caning him. We both get off on that. He mostly sticks to fisting me, well, fisting and fucking and what not. He has, in the past, taken paddles to me. I’m not much into getting spanked, but I’ll bear with it to get to there. You know what I mean? |
| PG: | Yeah. |
| CM: | Where you’re like, “I hate this. I hate this. I hate this. Oh, fuck, there it is. There it is.” Again, being a child of abuse, I know what I can take, and I know what my body can handle. Now being an adult of abuse, or an adult of perversion and whatever, I know that there’s a break in my spirit or whatever where if we can just get it to that point and I can, if you can get me to cry while you’re beating me, we’re good. We succeeded in the efforts. |
| PG: | You get to that point and there’s that release. |
| CM: | Yeah. Yeah. For me, I’m working some shit out. I am one of those guys that we’re figuring out who I am when you’re beating me or flogging me or whatever. I get really aggressive and I get really upset and then all of the sudden, I’m there, and I’m like, “This is what we came for. Keep it coming.” You know? |
| PG: | Mm-hmm (affirmative). |
| CM: | Now you can’t break me, because, you know? |
| PG: | Yeah. So one of my questions, and you’re starting to, I think, get into it, but what makes it leather sex? What is the core of the sexuality that you’re going for? |
| CM: | Sure. So, I mean, there’s the basic: leather. A little bit of leather helps. That’s something that I really … I do, when I put on my leather gloves, that’s a good place to start. Or the hood, right? But I do think that leather doesn’t need to be there. Leather sort of lends a branch to BDSM, right? |
| PG: | Mm-hmm (affirmative). |
| CM: | Then they break it off and they use it? So, I think you can be butt ass naked, both of you, and still be sort of leather. If the dynamic between the two partners are a power source. Sub-dom, is a good way to be. Then, I don’t even think pain needs to be involved. I think as long as there’s a really set tone for the people involved, and then it’s continued out through the whole thing. I get really upset when somebody breaks during a scene to be selfish or to be lazy. |
| PG: | What do you mean exactly? That steps out of the roles? |
| CM: | Yeah. Okay, so there’s a difference between saying, “Hey, I’m no longer enjoying this. Please stop.” Or, “Hey, safe word.” Okay? |
| PG: | Mm-hmm (affirmative). |
| CM: | When people just don’t want to play anymore because it’s not what they thought it would be, or they’re not willing to continue in the face of the sub or dom, for whatever reason. I think sometimes a scene can take a long time to set up and when one of the people decides that it’s not worth it. Again, I’m not talking about somebody who doesn’t want to be there just or because they’re being tortured, because it’s become violent or become too aggressive, but they’ve just given up on the whatever. That upsets me, and it has a lot to do with my commitment to service. If you’re my sir, and you tell me to go kneel over there for the next two hours, or as long as the sir wants, that’s where I’m at, because I’ve chosen already to be in this scene. Now, I might ask for maybe not so much a full break, but I have issues with my shins, so sometimes being on my knees is really difficult. So, “Can I lean back,” something like that. |
| PG: | But the ability to ask for an accommodation while in a specific head space, you don’t necessarily leave that head space. |
| CM: | Yeah. The only way that I can continue this is by saying, in my experience, I do not leave head space until we are done with head space. Because I just do. I don’t know. It’s like going to work. You go to work from 8:00 AM until 6:00 PM or whatever because you said you would. And you’re gonna be there all day even if it’s tiring and it’s tough and you need a break to eat some food at one moment. But the commitment that you make to that space, I take that very seriously. If I’m playing a dom, or sir, and I have somebody over at my home who has said, “I’m really into being submissive, and I’m really into fisting or I’m really into being beat.” |
| And I’m like, “Okay, well okay, there’s a few things that I’m gonna need from you, and I’m gonna put you into some weird positions right now just to see what you’re capable of, and then we’ll probably get into some really fun stuff later.” Or, “Hey, you said that you’re really into beating or getting flogged, lucky you I’ve got three floggers ready to go. And I love flogging, let’s do this.” And after the first one you’re like, “No.” I’m like, really? You just gave a lot of talk about how into this you were and how much you can take. | |
| And here’s what would happen in that situation for me. I let you go, or I take you down, give you a few minutes to think it over, give you some water. And then ask you, do you want to continue this? And if you don’t want to continue, then politely have you leave. | |
| PG: | I think, one of the things I’m picking up. So a couple things, one there’s a certain amount of integrity, commitment. To where there’s just, “Hey I’ve said that I would, doing the things that you say you will do.” Kind of like, if I’m interesting in flogging, I’d like to experience it and see how it feels versus, “Oh yeah, I’m totally interested in flogging. I’ve gotten flogged so many times.” And talk the game. |
| CM: | Or even … I guess I could’ve used fisting as a better example because I’ve done it way more often. Where a guy will come over, say that they’re really into fisting, and we’re both sober. Because I play fisting pretty much sober. |
| And they’re like really really tight, they’re not letting me. There’s not letting, and I’m giving them plenty of space. And they also talked a really big game about how they can get fisted and everything. And then I spent the next two hours trying to get into their hole that I can’t get into at all. It’s super tight. | |
| I consider myself an expert pro fister. And I put that out there a lot. Like, “Hey, we’re gonna be playing in that realm. If you wanna come over and have me teach you to get fisted, that’s a thing.” | |
| PG: | That’s a very different process. |
| CM: | Different process, and I’m fine with that. But we’re gonna be doing it in, whatever, and there’s gonna be something else in it for me. But if you talk a big game that you’re this hardcore fister, and you present a hole that just not ready for fisting, I feel like I got… |
| PG: | Duped. |
| CM: | Duped, yeah. Because I would never do that. I would never … I have a hole that pretends it’s tight, but- |
| PG: | We all know it’s lying |
| CM: | ::Laughs:: And I have people that are like, “Oh it’s really tight.” And I was like, “Just put it in there.” We are not ::Laughs:: it’s, kidding. |
| So anyway, that’s just my thing. It is about integrity, and I think a lot of people get upset when people don’t show up. Or for play sessions in general. Here, we have a smaller community with a leather community, and we have more people not showing up, and then we have more people showing up that are not genuine, or not being honest, they’re not being forthright. Or they’re putting themselves in the hands of people who are not being honest and forthright. Which is unfortunate. | |
| And then drugs. Drugs are not a good situation. | |
| PG: | They can break those lines of communication. |
| CM: | Yeah. And drugs change your perception of how your body feels. So you might had a really great flogging session while you’re sober at a flagger’s party. I’ll give them that credit. But then you go meet a friend and you’re like, “Oh I really want to get high first.” And then you can get swung up and you’re like, “What the fuck, something’s wrong. Why am I feeling so much more?” Well it’s because of that. |
| Or I feel so little that you’re not noticing you’re causing harm. And I’m not telling people, don’t do drugs, because I engage occasionally in different drugs. But what I’m not doing is trying to do crazy things while I’m on drugs, just because … anyway, yeah. | |
| PG: | Going back to what we were talking earlier, the safety component. |
| CM: | Yeah. I’ve been there. When you get high, especially on meth, you just want something in there. I know somebody who did one, a really dumb, got really high really quick, and then walked around this guy’s house, sticking anything he could up in his asshole. Something broke inside of him, and it was a ceramic something. And imagine he’s super high, jittering, and now he has to go to the emergency room because he has ruined his colorectal canal. This poor kid got a huge scar. |
| Anyway. That’s not me. And that’s not a situation I want to be in. And I was really lucky the one incident that I had, the cut was very small, and it was inside me, and it was not a cut, it was a .. I don’t know, how it happened but I put too many little toys, like this, inside me all at once. And somehow my butt said, “Oh we can’t handle that.” And I think what happened was one of the toys went here, and then it went like that. And then it did something to that. So it was this tiny little cut, caused a lot of bleeding, there’s a puddle. Went to the emergency, walked to the emergency room, which, thank god it’s right there. And they were able to look inside me and tsh, tsh, tsh | |
| PG: | Sew it up? |
| CM: | Yeah. And then I was there for one night. It was pretty terrifying. The worst part was they put this balloon inside of me, to make the incision close up. |
| PG: | To line up to the.. |
| CM: | Yeah. And so I was like, “Oh.” I was sitting in my bed and I was like, “I have to fart.” Or poop, or something. I’m gonna go to the bathroom. Well I didn’t call anybody in to help me. I was just like, whatever. But when I did it, I did fart, and the balloon came out and just … all over my legs, and all over the floor. It just spread so quick. And it was continuing out of me. At that point, I walked myself to the bathroom, I called the nurse and then came in. And I just closed my eyes. |
| And it was one of the moments in my life, where I did not handle it. And I just started crying, and I’m having a moment and bleeding all over the place. | |
| PG: | I think that’s a moment you’re allowed to. |
| CM: | Yeah. I did this to myself, I remember saying, “I did this to myself. I love my asshole so much.” I remember saying that a lot. “I just love my asshole so much and I ruined it, I broke it forever.” And I go, “And there’s so much blood.” |
| And they’re like, “Are you okay?” And I was like, “I don’t mind. Blood doesn’t bother me, and right now I’m very bothered by how much blood is happening.” It’s really scary. | |
| So that’s my one little, let’s not do that again. And unfortunately, I was a little high that night. I was so excited, I just wanted to get everything in there. The other thing is I only got out my little toys. I was like “We’re gonna go wide.” And I think we just popped something. | |
| CM: | Yeah. But have you had … how many scopes had you had inside of you? |
| PG: | I’ve only had scopes for HPV exams. |
| CM: | Oh, no endoscopies. |
| PG: | Yeah. |
| CM: | So no colon- |
| PG: | No colonoscopies, or sigmoidoscopies. |
| CM: | Sigmoidoscopies, and then colonoscopies. |
| PG: | Yeah. |
| CM: | So I got all of them. ::Laughs:; And I love them. I find them so interesting and fascinating. And the sigmoidoscopy, I was in the emergency room and they were looking in there. And there was this lady. And she’s just, “It’s okay, it’s okay.” And I was just like- |
| PG: | It is totally okay. |
| CM: | It’s okay, and stop touching me. But I knew where she was going with this. I’m sure she had a lot of experience with people not having a good experience, and just also being a mom or … but she was being very motherly to me, and I was just like, “Can you guys show me that?” |
| PG: | I wanna see. |
| CM: | I’m really interested in this. And I was like, that is so cool. It is so pink and red up there. I was like, “What is that?” |
| And in an sigmoidoscopy you see the first eight inches maybe. And it’s pretty much all rectal colored. It’s all that super pink. Well once you keep going further in there, it gets a different color, it’s more purply pink, and then you see a lot more veins. I love it. And then when you go even further, it’s a whole other … but anyway, I love it, I want one, I want a scope. ::Laughs:: What’s in there today? | |
| PG: | And then one question. You’ve talked a lot about mentors. And you mentioned a little about, hey you can teach people fisting. How are you bringing the gospel to the children? And bringing things forward? |
| CM: | So when my involvement in Flaggers ended, I thought well, that’s where I get a lot of the fisting or I got new people. I stay in contact with fisting friends and I make sure to keep them active and there’s that. |
| I became really active on Xtube. I was on Tumblr my entire title year and that was fun. And then somebody started reporting my videos. Or they found my videos. But I was one of the accounts that they started going after the videos. So things started getting taken down. But I still kept posting. Because I like Tumblr because it’s not just about promoting yourself. But I like promoting sexuality. | |
| Then I decided to open an Xtube account. And I have tea by the way, if you’re interested. | |
| PG: | I’m good. |
| CM: | Lots of tea. |
| So the way that I wanted to do my Xtube was, okay, let’s promote Piercedffreak, or Cole Miner as a performer. But also because of the way that my … I know that I can fists differently that most people. I also wanted to do a spin on my videos, make them more interesting also make … they’re sober. And to have them be creative and be well produced, at least that’s what I thought, an additive. And that was good. | |
| And then when I gained a little bit of weight I also wanted to showcase, “Hey guys, I’m a guy, I gained some weight, and I’m gonna keep showing you videos of a fatter guy.” And nobody seemed to mind. In fact, people were like, “Put on more weight. We like this.” And I was like, “Cool, that’s fine.” Because I was having some issues with my weight at the time. Of which I can definitely trace back to the depression and everything from my year. | |
| So I’ve made some really fun videos that have found their way outside. People were taking them, putting them on Pornhub and stuff, which I think is fun. But what I … so people contact me a lot from Tumblr and from Xtube. And they want to know how you do that. What’s the process. And I’m just like, “Well it’s a long process, and it took me … I started when I was 19.” And I tell them to be safe about it. And I tell them drugs are fun but ripping your colon out because you’re super high is not fun. So how about being good to your colon and then maybe getting high first, or later, that’s fun. | |
| Just basically reminding people that some things aren’t capable for everybody. Yeah, I can take a double fist, and I can take an elbow occasionally. But not always. And it took a lot of years to do that. And also, you get the other videos of the guys who have giant prolapses and it’s like, it’s beautiful, and that would be so much fun. That’s not everybody. Not everybody can do that. In fact some people, that might be really dangerous. For these particular men they have it now. | |
| PG: | They can do it. |
| CM: | They have it now. And yeah they have it. Whatever they did over the years to get that, that’s great. I used to think I wanted one, and know I like, “No we’re good.” And if it happens it happens. |
| But they’re gonna have something in the future that they’re gonna deal with, that a lot of these younger guys are not gonna take into consideration. But again, maybe those particular guys who get these awesome prolapses, maybe they won’t deal with it at all. But somebody else might. So I think purposely having a goal for your body, like I have to have to have double fisting, or I have to have triple fisting, now, you know. You’re thinking this, and it’s like, it’s fucking amazing to watch in porn. But we have to remind ourselves, yes, we’re watching porn | |
| PG: | There are limits to the human body. |
| CM: | Right. And we’re watching porn, it may be amateur porn, and that means that it’s somebody for real, but we’re watching porn and we don’t know the state of his mind at the time, or where he’s at, or how many years he’s been doing it. Yeah we all want a fucking elbow in us, or a horse cock or whatever, these are great fantasies. But just to be really really smart about it. And also using the right tools and using the right things. |
| I don’t know how many people I’ve had to have the conversation with, why I don’t want to use Crisco anymore, or why I don’t use Crisco. And it’s interesting how some people get really defensive about it. And I’m just like, “It’s my choice, you don’t have to give up using Crisco. But here are the things I don’t use Crisco for. And the fact that I know for a fact that a couple of my toys are the way that they are- ” because they got really really hard, “From using Crisco.” | |
| Basically understanding that human bodies are made a certain way, and your human body might not be able to take one fist. | |
| PG: | People have different shaped pelvises. |
| CM: | Yes. |
| PG: | And until we manage to get pregnant our hips aren’t really gonna change in our lifetime. |
| CM: | And I look at … because I watch some of the videos of the guys who can just … and it’s phenomenal, it’s absolutely beautiful. But I had to even stop myself from projecting myself onto that person. And thinking that I had to be him. That people won’t like me or whatever if I’m not being shoulder fucked back and forth relentlessly. I’m like, that’s so hot, and I’m like, god I can’t wait to meet that guy to do it to him. But to get it done to me, maybe not so much. |
| I recently, again, I’m 36, I’ve been doing this since I was 19, I recently was getting fisted and somebody went over that tailbone bump, and I go, “You’re just going over that tailbone bump, right?” | |
| And he goes, “Yeah.” I was like, “All this time I thought you were goin around the corner of my sigmoid process. I thought that’s what everybody was doing.” Was taking the turn, and I was feeling it going like that. And this whole time, you were just going over that bump, and I thought it was a hole. | |
| This is over 17 years, something like that, that I’ve been doing this. And something just became real to me. So this is what it is. So people are gonna find out different things throughout their life. As long as you’re trying to be safe about it. | |
| PG: | And the way we process different stimuli that’s not part of our mundane existence. |
| CM: | Yeah. And the way that your hand feel different in my hole compared to my partner. The fact that it’s built the way that it is, that you have your knuckles and things like that, we need to understand that each body type will receive it differently. |
| I recently had somebody sit on my foot and I was like, “Oh my god this is amazing.” His body really opened up to it and everything else. I just have to remind people, my pinky’s gonna go this way, so you have to pull it back in and then go in there. And I see a lot of people, they really want to get that foot inside them, and I’m like, “That’s great but something really important, is not break my toe off.” Don’t break my toe off, but also make sure that last pinky toe is clean down to the nub. Because that can actually do some tearing and ripping. And we don’t want that. | |
| The other thing is, I don’t know where the arm goes when it’s really deep inside you. I don’t know and I’ve been deep inside somebody. I’ve gone- | |
| PG: | I’d love to see an X-Ray. |
| CM: | Right? And I think I’ve seen a fake one. But I don’t know. People ask me all the time, and I’m like, “I don’t know.” I’ve seen the elbow guys and the shoulder guys and I love it, but I don’t know where that goes. |
| Have you seen the video of the guys taking whole feet up to here? It’s gorgeous. It’s my new thing, I love finding … because when I get on a thing, I got to find, finding guys taking feet up their asshole. I need to see that in a video, or that in a thing. | |
| PG: | Think we’ve gone over all my questions. Anything else you wanna share? |
| CM: | I gotta say, I don’t think of myself as very masculine. When I hear my voice on TV or whatever, I think I sound like a big old faggot. And that’s fine, I’ve come to terms with that. But my boyfriend tells me that I sound very butch, that I am butch in life. People have told me, “Cole, you actually come across very butch or straight acting.” And I really am not okay with that. But I don’t ever want anybody thinking that you have to be masculine to be a leather man. That you can be a straight up queen and be a good hardcore dom or sub or whatever. |
| But with that being said, I think if you’re gonna be a femme leather boy, you need to leave the perfume out. ::Laughs:: Because that’s my biggest complaint. I think masculinity, we can define it as we need to, and I’ve met some really butch faggot queens who do some hard damage. And like I’ve said, I don’t consider myself butch, but I guess I should … and also I don’t know if I should be grateful but I can get by. I don’t know. When I’m on stage at IML, and I’m sharing it with these gorgeous butch, masculine men, I did not feel like a big, butch masculine man. I felt like a gorgeous, freaky, fetish stud from Oregon. That’s all I felt like up there. | |
| So yeah. So I meet guys like you, I feel way less butch. ::Laughs:: But at the same time, I … I don’t know, but you’re you, and you do a great you. I’m really proud to know you and to have you in my life. | |
| PG: | And thank you for sharing so much of your experience; and hopefully when I circle back through here I can pick your brain some more. |